生花席谈 | Inspired Talk
深度有料的行业思考分享
第⑤期
本期 hhlloo/景观邦 专题子分类 生花席谈 板块有幸邀请来自泰国 Shma景观事务所 联合创始人/设计总监 Prapan Napawongdee、Yossapon Boonsom、Namchai Saensupha，近期Shma迎来了16周年庆，作为景观自媒体以及相识已久的老朋友，景观邦创始合伙人邓妃才与Shma三位创始合伙人展开了一场别开生面的访谈。在这次访谈中，Shma三位创始人分享了公司的成长历程和创立契机、独特的工作环境和核心价值观、以及他们为创造美好地球付出的一系列实践故事。
△景观邦邓妃才与Shma三位创始人16周年访谈
Shma是一家拥有多学科团队、以研究为基础的景观设计公司，包括Shma、Shma Soen、Shma Lab和Shma Media 四大板块。在过去的16年里，Shma已经超越了仅作为一家景观设计公司的使命，一直致力于建立可持续发展事业，优先从全球视角出发，着重考虑三大原则：城市、环境和人，坚信好的设计是共建世界可持续未来的起点。
△Shma 四大板块：Shma、Shma Soen、Shma Lab、Shma Media
△访谈视频 一
△访谈视频 二
访谈内容
01
能否和大家分享一下三位是在什么契机下创立的Shma?
In what circumstances did your three co-found Shma?
在一个很恰当的时机！我们在经济危机爆发的时候开始我们的职业生涯的，可以说我们三个都是在新加坡真正开始了专业的历练。因此，在几年之后，你七年？五年半/七年/四年半。在新加坡的工作后，我们都很想家，然后很想回去。我们觉得当时泰国，尤其是曼谷是很需要景观设计师来做正确的工作的，所以从那时开始创立Shma。我想我们希望带来一些新鲜的想法，带回我们的经验能为泰国做些贡献，但不仅仅限于泰国。我们觉得是时候用我们的经验去为世界做贡献了，我们想利用它来让世界和地球变得更美好。为什么是我们三个人呢？因为我觉得三个人肯定比一个人强。（没错!）我觉得或者也是因为我们志向相投。（没错！）所以我们想要一起分享快乐和痛苦，所以一起创立了公司。我们彼此互补，而且我们永远会成为彼此的后盾。拥有三个伙伴对我们来说是一个很好的人生的旅程，没有我们其中任何一个人，这一切都不会发生。
The right circumstances. I think we start our career during the time of economic crisis. So, all three of us really start practicing professionally, I can say it in Singapore.So, after a couple of years, you seven?5 years and half/seven/four and half in Singapore and we missed home, and we want to come back.And we think that Thailand and also Bangkok like really in like badly needed landscape architects to do the right job so we started at Shma at that time.I think we want to bring some refreshing idea, and bring the experience that we have, and contribute back to Thailand, but not only Thailand, but I think it’s time that we would like to use our experienceand use it for the whole world, that's how we gonna make the use of it to make the world better and the earth better.I think why three of us is because we think that it’s better than one erson(exactly!).I think maybe because we thinkthe same way (absolutely), so we want to share the good time and the bad time together, and build the company together.We complement together,And we will always have someone watching our backs.It is good to have three of us, without one of us, it won’t happen.
△Shma三位创始人：Namchai Saensupha、Prapan Napawongdee、Yossapon Boonsom
02
Shma的花园式办公环境非常独特，您觉得这样的工作环境对设计工作有什么益处？
The garden-style office environment of Shma is quite special. Do you think your working environment has any inspiration on the design process?
在我们一开始创办Shma寻找办公场地的时候，我们不想选在办公楼里。相反地，我们想要找一个像家的地方，最好还是带着小花园的。很幸运地，我们找到了这个地方。这里原本是一个住宅，我们把它变成了办公场所，保留了很多花园的空间，同时也提升了房子周围的花园。你看见的位于我身后的花园，实际上之前是个泳池。但考虑到我们不需要一个游泳池，所以我们把它改成了一个可以做项目的植物种植实验的花园。它因此变成了一个充满丰富的绿植，并给我们的同事提供了享受午餐和相互交流的场所。我认为，某种程度上，工作环境不仅仅是专注于你的工作，实际上这些穿插其中的活动非常重要。这些交流的时刻，或许好的新点子就从中产生。我觉得花园对我们来说是非常特别的存在。
So when we started the Shma and looking for the place for our office, we know from the start that we don’t want to be in the office buildings, but we try to find a place where is like a home that has garden itself.So luckily, we have found this place, which it was just a house before, then we just converted it into an office place, And we retained a lot of garden spaces, and also improve the garden around the house as well.The garden that you see behind me, actually, it was a swimming pool before.But we think that we didn’t need to use a swimming pool , so we turn it to be a garden to try out many plants that we want to use in our projects as well.And it become a nice variety of plants, and provide a place for our people to come out to enjoy the lunch and enjoy chit-chatting with each other.I think, in a way, working environment is not only focus on your work exclusively ,but actually the activities in between are very important.And those are times that people can discuss and then perhaps some new ideas could happen from there.So, I think our garden is very special for us.
△Shma办公场地花园前貌的泳池，Swimming pool in front of the garden of Shma office
△Shma将泳池改为植物种植实验的花园，Shma turned the pool into a garden for experimental plant growing
03
能介绍下Shma团队以及专长吗？
Can you tell us about the Shma team and their expertise?
首先我们的目标，是通过设计创造一个更好的地球。因此我们的目标是创造可持续的设计，这意味着我们需要很多的专业技能来实现它。 我觉得专业性从思考的过程开始，我们如何使用设计思维，如何通过头脑风暴来提出一种新的想法。这不仅在我们团队之间，有时我们还与客户及相关利益关联者一起workshop，思考如何获得非常独特的想法。其次我们还得研究如何通过景观将这些想法变为现实。我们与客户及相关利益关联者密切合作。还和园艺团队一起，不仅仅是单纯地做种植设计，还要为这个场地考虑栖息地或生态性。因此我们不仅要了解植物，还要了解人。那如何了解人们的行为呢？我们有一个专门的调研团队会去对人们进行访谈调查和分析，收集人们的想法用于设计中，使设计更丰富或更贴合人的敏感点然后到了施工图的部分，我认为是十分重要的。因为一旦你有了好的愿景和想法，你就必须很好地表达出来。所以我们专门有一个施工图审查团队，以确保我们所有的图纸能够精确的落实到场地上。然后是场地施工，我们和施工单位一起合作，确保每一个细节都能建出来。施工结束后，我们还有后续做反馈跟进的团队，确认及分析项目完工后的使用反馈。确保能收集相关数据，用于下一个项目的提升改进，在下一个项目做到更好。最后，我认为很重要的一点，我们会一起复盘所有完成的工作及从中所获得的知识。不仅仅是为了给我们的工作一个评价，也为了可以把它分享给到社会。因为我们如果想要实现可持续的景观设计，或是可持续的地球，那么所有人都应该意识到景观设计可以成为一个创造更美好社会的强有力的工具我想这就是我们试图从思考、意识、交流、分享及知识各方面去创造的“生态系统”。我们都有很专业的团队去挖掘，确保这些都能成为强有力的工具，相互作用从根本上改变世界。这就是Shma的专长。
I think it comes back to our goal, to create the better Earth through the landscape design.So, our goal is to create a sustainable landscape design.So that means we have to have a lot of expertise in order to realize them.I think the expertise start from the process in thinking. How we gonna use the design thinking, the way we can brainstorm and come out with a refreshing idea.Not only among ourselves, but also sometime we workshop with our client, with the stakeholder in order to getting the very unique idea.Secondly, we also look into how we gonna turn those ideas into reality through the design of the landscape architecture,working closely, actively with the client and all stakeholders. And also works with horticulturist team, not only to design the planting, but also design the habitant or some kind of ecology for the place.And we need to also understand not only the planting, we also need to understand the people. How we gonna understand people’s behavior? We have the participatory design team in order to analysis and talking to people, finding the idea from the people to make the design even richer or sensitive to the people.And then comes to the retaliation of the construction part, I think this is very important. Because once you have the good vision, you have the good idea, you have to implement it well,so, we have the construction management team to make sure that the drawings are well documented with the very accurate program.And then looking at the site, working with the contractor to make sure that the details are well constructed.And then after the site is completed, we also have a team to monitoring it, to make sure and analysis whether what would be the feedback after it completed. To make sure that we can collect the data, and improve our work later, in next project we will make it even better.And lastly, I think it’s also important we gonna communicate all the work that we have done, all the knowledge that we found. Not only keep it as comments to ourselves, and also sharing to the society.Because I think to have a sustainable landscape design, or sustainable earth, everyone needs to be aware and aware of the landscape design can be the tool to create a better society.I think this is all the ecosystem that we try to create fromthinking/retaliation/communicate/sharing and also about the knowledge. we also have a team to find in depth, and make sure that all of these can be the powerful tools to intertwine and change the world to fundamentals.
△项目施工环节配合跟进，Follow up with the project construction link
△项目调研和沟通，Project research and communication
04
Shma想做什么样的景观？在泰国想通过景观创造什么样的体验呢？
What kind of landscape Shma prefer? And what kind of landscape experience Shma want to bring to Thailand?
Shma景观的核心价值观是可持续性设计。的确，因为我们都在与生物打交道：先是人类，然后草木，以及包含其他物种的生态环境，包括土壤中的微生物。因此，如何结合这些要素并且让其能长期宜居？与此同时，景观也在为用户提供服务。这意味着，即使设计的背景是可持续性的，但最终呈现出来的样貌也可以是非常独特的，有时是有趣的，有时是功能性的，有时是让人耳目一新且记忆深刻的。现在回答第一个问题的第二部分。土地和开放空间是最珍贵的，我们可以在我们的环境中加入景观的机会越来越少。因此，我们想带给泰国的是多功能和多用途的景观，一个区域有多种用途而不仅仅是单一目的。比如，在提供私人景观时，我们也试图让私人景观能被公众欣赏和共享。例如，商业空间和办公建筑的前广场，不建造栏杆，让部分空间在某些特定的时间也能开放给公众使用。又或者是可以给其他小动物提供食物和提供栖息地的景观，不仅仅是为了美观、装饰及营销目的。但是景观本身，正如我所说的，是越来越有价值，也越来越稀缺的，所以我们正在尽我们所能用有限的资源创造最大的价值。
The back bone of Shma landscape would be sustainability.Indeed, because we are dealing with living things: first is human, and then trees, and ecology which involves other species, including microorganism in the soil.So, how to combine all these things, and make it livable in a long-term?And at the same time, it serves the purpose of users.So meaning that, even though the background is sustainability, but the appearance of the final product of landscape it can be something very unique, sometimes it is fun, sometime is functional, sometime is very refreshing and memorable.To answer the second part of the first question, the land and the open spaces are the most precious things, and there are fewer and fewer possibilities that we can add the landscape into our environment.So our landscapes that we want to bring to Thailand, is the landscape that is multifunctional and multipurpose, one area that serves many purposes, not only sole purposes.For example, giving this private landscape, we try to make the private landscape can be enjoyed, can be shared to public as well.For example, the space in front of the commercial areas (and) office buildings, that have no fences, and some part of it can be accessed and used by public in some certain times. Or even the landscape that can produce foods and provide the habitats for other species, and small animals, not just for beauty, not just for decorations, not just for the marketing purposes,but the landscape itself, as I said, that is more and more valuable and scarce,So we are trying our best to achieve most out of that limited resources that we are provided.
△空间的多样性 | Shma作品：FYI Center & Modena
05
您认为景观可以为环境和城市带来什么样的影响？
What do you think the impact of landscape on the environment and the urban city?
近年来，Shma参与了许多在曼谷以及附近城市的公共项目。我们始终谨记在高密度城市公共空间很稀缺这一点，因此所有的设计中，我们都考虑到这一点，我们知道城市共享公共空间是非常重要的。当一个又一个很小的空间连结起来，我们就能够创造一个更美好的环境，能对周边环境和城市生活品质产生更深远的影响。
Recently, Shma has been doing quite a lot of public projects in Bangkok and other cities around the regions.We always keep mind that the lack of open public spaces in the dense urban areas, so all the design, we have this in mind, and we know that sharing of the urban open spaces is important.And smaller and smaller parts, when combine, we can create a much better environment and make a bigger impact into the surrounding and the quality of life in the urban.
△通过连接城市公共空间创造城市美好生活环境，Create a better living environment by connecting urban public Spaces
因此，我们正在做的所有项目，我们都试图让它更开放，让大众更容易亲近。即使有些项目在物理空间上不可进入，你不能真正走进去，但至少我们创造了视觉上共享开放的景观。人们也许可以透过栏栅欣赏私人空间的美好风景。因此，城市绿网空间的理念是显而易见的。总体来说是创造更美好的环境，带来更深远的影响。
So, I think all the projects we are doing, we try to make it more open and accessible by public.Even though some of the projects are not possible to access by physics, you cannot really go in there, but at least, we can share through visual, though openness.People maybe can look through the fence and into the good landscape in private areas.So the perception of urban green spaces is obvious, is more to combine and make the better and bigger impacts in overall.So the perception of urban green spaces is obvious, is more to combine and make the better and bigger impacts in overall.
△Shma城市绿网空间理念，Shma urban green network space concept
在这样的理念之下，我们在设计的细节中结合了生物多样性考虑。我们考虑通过植物给予更多的可能性，通过开花授粉得到供其他物种如鸟类和昆虫享用的果实和花蜜。你知道，他们可以来这觅食，甚至住在我们新设计的景观里，这可以让城市环境变得更丰富更友好。因此，我们在城市环境中所做的新项目，不仅仅为物理、视觉和精神层面上的共享增加绿地和开放空间，也在生态环境上为其他物种提供了栖息地。
So with this, the detail we are putting inside the landscape that combines the much diversity of species.We are thinking about the plants, give chances, giving flowers, and have the fruits and nectar for other small species, like birds and insects.You know, they can come and utilize, or even live in the landscape newly designed.So that the environment in the urban areas can be more of rich and more friendly .So that the new landscape projects that we are doing in the urban contexts, not only increase the green areas and openness by sharing to physical, visual, or mental , but it also increases habitats for other species in the ecology as well.
△空间的多样性 | Shma作品：One City Centre
06
泰国是一个有丰富水系的国家。能否分享一下Shma设计在水管理方面的经验？
Thailand is a country with multiple river systems. Could you share Shma’s experience in water management?
泰国中部，主要的河流系统-湄南河漫滩，起源于泰国北部，流经中部汇入海洋。其实在古时候，我们的祖先已经知道如何随着河流而定居。我们的祖先学会了避开河流上涨的区域。他们的定居选址不是去改变河流系统而是顺势选择河流下退流向海里的区域。我认为，现今的城市发展和乡村发展缺乏对雨洪管理的概念。因此，作为一名景观设计师，提出与水共生，思考如何设计适合我们现有水资源条件的土地是非常重要的。我们在曼谷近郊有一个已经建成的项目叫Jin康养小镇。在一开始，我们设计了一个基于绿地和水系基础设施概念的总体规划。我们开始梳理出水的肌理，这实际上成为了主要的设计核心。我们对全场地条件进行了测试，并以此定位了雨水排放收集点。
So, actually, most of Thailand, the middle part of Thailand, is actually, the Chao Phraya floodplain , which is the main river system, starts from the northern part of Thailand, coming down to the middle part of Thailand, and then goes out to the ocean.So in the old days, our ancestors already known how we do the settlements that go with the flow of waters.We(ancestors) tried to avoid the places that would have impacts of water rises from the rivers, our settlement is not kind of the fixed system but is something that can be adaptable to those when the waters try to come down to the sea.So, I think, nowadays, when we develop into the urbanization and countries, we are kind of lacking the ideas of how to deal with the water.So I think, being a landscape architect, it is very important that we can propose our ideas of how to deal with, how to design the lands that is appropriate for this water condition that we have.So we have done a project in the outer side of Bangkok called Jin Wellbeing County.From the start, we design a masterplan of it that based on green and blue infrastructure concepts.So we start to lay out the pattern of the water that essentially becomes the main core of the design.So we have the main little quiz that go cross the project, and use that as the water mitigation places.
△基于绿地和水系基础概念分析 | Shma作品：Jin Wellbeing
因此在这个项目中，我们完全没有任何硬质地面排水，实际上我们选择用自然下渗作为主要方式去处理与水的关系。我们有效规避了洪水，同时，也可以利用这些水来帮助浇灌植物，让植物养护长远来看是可持续的。这也变成了令人赏心悦目的特色景观。因此，绿化也成为该项目一个很棒的景观特点，这是一个森林可以很容易生长而不需要太多养护的地方，这也是一个人们能来这欣赏水流，鱼儿能畅游，其他动物们也能自在生活的场所。我们认为通过将水融入设计，不仅能给人类带来影响，实际上也给自然带来了更大的影响。
So in this project, we don’t have the concretes drain at all, but actually we use the natural drain as the main way to deal with the water.We can avoid the flooding, at the same time, we can use the access water that come to be part of the water that helps to watering the plants, maintaining our green to be sustainable in the long future as well.And it also becomes nice landscape features for people to enjoy as well.so the green become one of the nice landscape features for the project as well.It is a place where the forest can grow easily without much maintenance.And this is a place where people can come to enjoy where the water flows, where the fish can enjoy, where the animal life can enjoy as well.We think that by integrating the water into the design, its impacts not just human, but is actually impact for the greater nature as well.
△将水融入设计 | Shma作品：Jin Wellbeing
07
能看到Shma的设计理念在海外项目中也能有非常好的体现。能分享下你们为实现这样的成果做了哪些努力？
Shma's design concept is well acheived in oversea country as well. what kind of efforts did you do to achieve this?
实际上，我的第一份景观设计工作是在新加坡。我在新加坡工作的时候，我学习了很多项目经验，不只是在新加坡的，也有很多其他国际项目。因为在新加坡，他们服务于世界各地的项目。所以当我们回到泰国创办Shma的时候，我们也想把我们的服务扩展到国际标准。我认为在做国际项目的时候，对景观设计师来说，最重要的是要了解和理解我们项目所处的各个国家及其特定地区的实际情况。所以我们开始做大量的关于项目所处场地位置的研究，当然还有根据项目需求所做的场地分析。比如，在新加坡的丰树商业城项目。在这个项目里没有太多的空间留给景观，但实际上，立体停车场有大面积闲置的屋顶空间。因此，我们向客户提出采用森林的概念，希望将整个屋顶平台变成绿色景观。实际上，这个场地紧邻新加披最重要的自然保护区。因此，我们设想通过引入森林的概念，在我们的场地与森林实现生态价值上的链接。新加坡在屋顶绿化设计方面是非常先进的。这为我们带来了实现引入森林这个概念的机会。我们对土壤深度进行了处理，以确保所有的树木和植物能够在这个停车场屋顶上存活下来，并且能成长到和地面几乎一致的状态。这个项目已经完成了将近八年。我们重访项目，看到这些树木与之前在地面相比直接长成了大树，我们非常开心能看到这样的结果。
So actually, my first job in landscape architecture is in Singapore.So when I worked there, I gained a lot of experiences not only in Singapore but also international projects as well.Because in Singapore, they service kind of the worldwide projects.So when came out (and) we come back to Bangkok and opened Shma by ourself, we think we wanted to extend our service to the international standard as well.So, I think to do the international projects, the important thing for landscape architects is to really know and understand the actual condition of each country and each specific place that we are dealing with.So we start to do lots of research about the site location that we are dealing with, and of course the type of project that requires site analysis as well.For example, the project in Singapore, it is called Mapletree Business City.In this project, there are not much spaces left for the landscape, but actually, they have a lot of spaces on top of the car park podium.So we proposed our client that we wanted to turn the entire roof of podium into green landscape, with the forest concept.The site is actually adjacent to one of the most important natural reserves in Singapore.So we thought that by introducing the forest concept, we can connect the ecological value from the forest into our site.So, in Singapore, they are quite advanced in a way that they do green roof design.So it opens up our opportunity to do with activities with this concept.So we deal with soil depth to ensure that all the trees and plants on this podium can be survived and also can grow as close as possible into the way they grow on the ground.We have done this project for almost 8 years already. We have gone back and see that the trees directly grow to a very big size comparing to when they grow on the ground.So we are very happy to see this result.
△Shma作品：Mapletree Business City II
另外一个例子是一个在印度浦那的项目，从孟买开车过去大概是三个小时。场地完全在一个山地环境里，有非常独特的季节变化。在旱季，几乎完全没有降雨，山上的所有植物都变得枯黄；但在雨季，因为丰沛的雨水，绿色又重现回归。因此在这不同季节的差异性下，我们希望创造能反映这种对比的景观。我们提出了景观提供地下存储空间以储存雨水的设想，这样我们就能在雨季保存雨水。在旱季来临的时候，这些与地面连接的地下雨水可以滋养在这个场所周围的所有树木。所以这成为了我们处理这个空间的主要思路，这对开发商有很大帮助，他们不必处理很多植物的养护问题。当我们了解场地的特性时，就可以利用作为优势，帮助长久地维护自然。
The other example is our project in India, it is located in Pune, it’s around 3 hour’s drive from Mumbai city.And the location that we work with exactly in a hilly environment, and it has quite unique, kind of seasons.In the dry season, there is no rain at all, everything on the mountain becomes yellow, but in the monsoon season, the green start to come back, because there is a lot of rains that comes in the monsoon season.So with this contrast in the seasonal conditions, we wanted to create the landscape that reflects this contrast.So what we proposed is the landscape that provide space to store the rainwater underneath the ground, so that we can keep the moisture on the ground during the monsoon season,But when the dry season comes, these water that connected on the ground level will help nurturing all the tree surrounding this area.So this becomes our main idea to deal with this space, and this help a lot with the developers doesn’t have to deal with a lot of maintenance on the plantings.when we understand the nature of the places , we can use that as our advantages, and use that to help to maintain our greenery in a long run.
△Shma作品：Lupin Research Park
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Shma在公共空间方面也备受关注。您如何看待当前很多城市面临的巨大的城市更新机遇？Shma在城市更新的设计过程中又是如何引导和发挥公众和社区参与的作用的呢？
Shma is also getting much attention in public space design. What do you think of the huge renewal issues cities facing now? How does Shma guide and leverage the role of the public and the community in the landscape design process?
我认为现在人们更多的生活在像曼谷一样的城市环境中，其他城市也是如此生活在城市中的人们面临的问题往往是缺乏绿色空间与公共空间这很常见，在城市发展的进程中，绿色空间与公共空间常常变得越来越小或者被拆除。我觉得这是我们作为景观设计师的责任，如何通过为公众创造更多的公共&绿色空间来让城市变得更好。这也是Shma感兴趣的点之一，通过创造更好的过程在城市尺度上做出贡献。我认为设计一个好的公共空间不仅仅只是设计一个好的形式，而且在于去理解人们，理解人们的行为，理解场地周围的自然环境。因此我们专长之一就是公众参与式设计，找到相关利益关联者，把他们聚集在一起，共同讨论获得一些独特的想法，以确保我们共同创造的空间能够成为一个可长久使用的空间，让人产生归属感，热爱去使用它愿意去那呆着的空间。让它成为一个地点（place）而不仅仅只是一个空间（space）。我们一直致力于将城市中各种尺度的荒废的空间改造成不同规模的公共空间，从小尺度的社区空间、高速路下的空间、大小型公园以及铁路沿线空间等。其实我们有很多机会来创造更好的城市。我们做的越多，就越能意识到它的好处。它需要一个平台或是一些人作为协调者去收集并整合各种资源。所以在过去的三年里我们成立了WePark这样的平台。不仅仅是作为设计师，而且作为城市协调者，找出城市中被荒废的灰空间，邀请场地相关利益关联者，带来他们各自能提供的资源。有些人有资金，有些人有专业知识，有些人有很好的意见。把它们整合到一起，就可以把那些有潜力的城市灰空间变成绿色基建，将一个“灰色”的城市变成 “绿色”城市。
I think now people are more living in the urban environment like Bangkok and I believe so in other cities.And one of the problems of people living in the city environment is we are lacking of green spaces and public spaces.It is normal that the way we develop the city the more city grow the public spaces and green spaces are getting smaller and get demolished in the urban environment.I think it becomes our role as a landscape architects, how to be able to find and create a better city by creating more public spaces and green spaces for the public.I think this is one of the Shma’s interest and our role to contribute to the city scale by creating a better process.I think create a good public space is not all about designing with a beautiful form, but it’s about understanding the people, the behavior of the people, understanding the nature that surrounding that area.So one of our expertise and our knowledges that we have it’s about participate in design, finding the stakeholders, getting them together, and come out with ideas, a very unique idea in order to make sure that the space we create together becomes a long-lasting thing that people belongs to the space, and love to use it, and want to be there. It becomes the place not just a space.We have been working through this revitalizing the abandon area in the city to become the public space in varies scales from small scale in the community, the spaces underneath the express way, the big parks and small parks, or the place along railway.There are so many possibilities that we think we can create a better city. The more we work on that, the more we realize that, it’s good to.... it requires a platform or someone who become the mediator to collect all the resources and pull the resources together.So the past three years, we also funded WePark as a platform, not only to ask as designer, but also ask as a mediator to invite the stakeholders in the city in order to find the abandon area that left in the cities and bring the resources that everybody have.Some might have the money the budget, some might have the knowledges, some might have the opinions. And put them together and slowly we can change the grey city to become green city by turning those abandon land that has some much potential to become green infrastructure.
△Shma 致力于将城市中各种尺度的荒废的空间改造成不同规模的公共空间，Shma is committed to transforming the abandoned Spaces of various scales in the city into public Spaces of different scales
我们已经在这样的一个平台上工作三年了。现在这个平台变得越来越有知名度，并得到了当地政府与民间组织的认可。因此我们也想将这个平台扩展到其他城市，与其他城市和其他专业通过交流，探寻一些方法，让这些知识变得有用，也能把其他城市的灰空间变成绿色。因此这就是Shma试图通过景观设计为城市环境做出的贡献，不仅仅是物理上的设计，我们还想创造一个有包容性的平台来让更多人一起合作，一起创造更好的城市。通过这个平台，我们最开始选择了位于湄南河畔的一块废弃场地，湄南河是曼谷的主要河流。它曾经是一个垃圾场，没有人使用。然后我们和当地政府一起找出这块场地，在当地社区、民间组织的帮助下，慢慢将其改造成一个社区公园。现如今这个公园已经变成了当地社区的重要节点，也变成了供孩童和社区使用的绿地，成为了城市农场。这是其中一个例子，这样的场地仍有潜力，有很多可以发挥的空间。在城市中我们还设计了许多这样的地方。像是一些地下通道或是高速路沿边空间。我们慢慢地将城市改造得更宜居。我们相信通过这个平台，通过Shma的工作，能慢慢地让这座城市变得更好。
So, we have been working on these as a platform for the past three years. And now this platform is becoming aware and grown, and recognize by the local government and the private sector.So, we also would like to extend this platform to other cities, and exchange these with other expertise and cities to find a way that this knowledge can be useful, to turn other grey city to a green city as well.So, this is what SHMA try to contribute to the urban environment through design but not only through physical design, but to create the inclusive process and also become the platform that can create collaboration to create a better city.Through this platform, at the beginning there is one abandon area right next to the Chao Phraya River which is the main river in Bangkok. And then it used to be a garbage dump site, nobody uses it, and then we found that together with the local government, and then we slowly turn it into the community park by the help of community and private sector, and all the partners.so now this park has become like a node for the community, and also become a green space for the community for the kid, and became like a urban farm.So this can be one of the examples, that this area has potential, and has so much thing to be done.We are also working in many areas in the city. Some of the area can be found at street canal some is next to the express way. So we slowly fix the city to be more livable. And I believe through this platform, through the Shma work we slowly be able to turn the city to found it better.
△Shma 将位于湄南河畔的一个垃圾场改造成一个受人欢迎的社区公园，Shma transformed a garbage dump on the banks of the Chao Phraya River into a popular community park
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在中国，如果想要重新激活一些场地，需要得到政府或社区的允许，这带来许多的难度。想了解下在泰国你们是如何面对这个问题的？
The situation in China is that if you want to reactivate some spaces, you need to get permission from the government or the community. So how do you this issue in Thailand?
我认为我们需要经过政府部门的许可和遵循相关规定，我觉得很重要的一个策略是和政府及相关利益关联者合作，因为一部分是政府的目标，一部分也是创建更美好更绿色城市的共同使命。因此我觉得政府也把我们看作是可以帮他们实现目标的一个专业帮手。同样的这也是我们公司的使命，创造一个更好的城市，让其成为可能。当我们与政府合作时，我们可以利用他们的资源，寻求他们的帮助，甚至是建议他们修改一些政策来让这种合作获得更多的支持。所以我觉得关键是合作，与政府合作、民间组织、相关利益关联者合作，这就是我们正在做的。
I think we need to go through the government authority as well, the permission and all the regulations. I think the important strategy it’s about working with stakeholder\working with government, because it’s part of government’s goal, and it’s a part of the mission to create a better city, a greener city.So, I think the government also looking at us as a profession who can help them to realize their goals.I think it also makes our mission as a company, to create a better city, to make it realizable, make it possible. Because when we work with the government, we can use theirs resource, ask them for help, and probably we can suggest them to change the policy to make these kind of corporation getting more supportive.So, I think the key idea is about working together with the government, with the private sector, with all the stakeholders. So this is what we try to do.
△Shma 与政府及相关利益关联者合作，以获得更多的支持，Shma works with the government and relevant stakeholders to gain more support
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在Shma成立16周年之际，这过程中你们有没有什么特别的故事可以分享呢？
On the 16th anniversary, do you have any story to share?
非常快，十六年转瞬即逝。公司从五个人的规模开始，准确点来说是从我家的二楼开始。然后我们搬到了这个地方，然后发展到十个人的公司，对吧？然后变成20人，40人，在我们意识到之前，现在已经80人了，我从来没想象过公司能成长到如此规模。我想或许是因为我们创立Shma的时机很好，那时景观市场在泰国开始上升，然后地产市场也井喷式上升，最开始我们的确没有想象过这么多的，我们最初的规划是公司最多也可能有40人。最开始的时候我们想传递一些新的理念，十分积极地传达给我们的客户、建筑师和顾问，我想那时充满能量与激情，想着给市场和客户贡献点什么，一些和当时市场不一样的理念，我现在还记得从第一天及第一份工作，我们非常热切地提出一些建议，我们现在还保持着这种热情,我们现在仍然很开心很享受做这件事，但是要说明一点，这从来都没有变得更轻松过，也从来不是一件容易的事情。我觉得这是因为我们或多或少的保持了我们最开始的状态。我们越成长，挑战就越大，可能是因为项目规模的原因，越来越复杂。但是当你保持着相同的热情去尝试解决这些问题的时候，积极的情绪总会给你带来很多有趣的解决方案，我觉得这也是我们想传递给员工的。能量是一切，Shma的能量但凡和Shma接触过的人都知道我们在说什么。
Very fast, 16 years past already.I think it started from a 5 persons company at my house actually, at second floor of my house. And then we found this place, and startto grow a bit to be I think 10 persons, right? And then twenty, forty.Before we realized it, it’s 80 people now.We never imaged that it can grow such this big.I think maybe we open shma at right time as well, where the market of the landscape is like growing in Thailand,residential Market was booming at that time.So, at first, we didn’t intend to have so much even what we thought about around 40 maximums, but becauseof the market that was demanding so we can expand our size.at thebeginning we try to introduce new ideas, try to become very proactive in working with clients and with architects and consultants,I think it is full of energy and a passion to contribute something to the market to the client.something different for the market as well.I still remember the first day and the first job that we tried to very eagerness to propose something, we keep that energy.And we are still happy and having fun doing it at the moment.Just to be clear, it never gets earlier,it's not easier, but we just like I think we still keep more or less the same energy like when we started.I think the more we grow, the challenge keep (getting) bigger. Because the size of the project, the complexity,of course, you try to keep the same spirit and energy in tackle those complexity with niceenergy with positivity and we come up with some very interesting solutions.I think it’ssomething that we really want our people to reflect that as well. Those are the energies everything, the Shma energy is that if people who's been in touch with Shma will know what kind of energy we talk about.
△Shma 16周年团队合影，Shma 16th anniversary team photo
你刚刚提到的复杂我觉得也包括了边界，我们的设计边界不断在扩大。最开始的时候，我们只专注于设计与建造景观，但现在我们的角色也在不断成长，它包括各种社会运动，对吧？意见交流、网络、与其他人或组织的相互合作、政治、政策等等，几乎是所有东西。因此这个复杂性变成了不仅仅是物理上的景观，而是包含所有东西，这让我想起在公司创立之初，作为一名景观设计师，我们也并不觉得自己只是个设计一些东西或酒店的人，我们从来不限制自己的角色，我们的角色是为更好的环境和社会提出解决方案。因此无论是什么挑战，无论面临什么，无论是大是小，我们都能有方法去面对，当然我们并没有完全都能取得成功将近百分之五十成功吧。从一开始我们就认为景观不仅仅限于项目本身，或者限于个人，我们一直认为它应该对所有人、所有事物甚至地球产生影响，这就是为什么如果你认为它是没有边界的，那我们所做的一切就将以更好的方式来影响我们的地球。我记得我们的第一个项目是一个运动场对吗？一个很小的运动场，但是我们对那个运动场提出了非常新的概念，一个没有游乐设施的游乐场。但是现在我们在做城市尺度的设计，从运动场到城市尺度。我想我们面临的经验和挑战也在不断增加，越来越多的知识和见解的获取让我们越来越开心，随着时间的推移我们也做了越来越多的项目，同时也拓展了我们的边界。我们越来越知道如何准确的做设计与判断，随着年龄增长，我希望我们能越来越睿智，充满知识的快乐。
And the complexity that you talk about I think it's involved theboundaries, our boundary is expanding.at the Earlytimes the only like focusing on the designing and building landscape. but now it's like our roles is growing,it involves social movement, youknow? ideas sharing, networking and collaboration with like other people other organization and bigger Networks, politics everything, policies.so, the terms complication complexity is just notlike the physical things of landscape is just like involve everything else,I think it's becomeremind me of at the beginning of the firm that as a landscape architect we didn't recognize it that is a person who designed things or Hospitality,we never limit our role, our role is about proposing solutions for the better environment and Society.So whatever challenge we have, whatever challenge we face, we tackled it with some solution, no matter how big or how small the challenge is.Of course, we are not success it all,Hardly fifty percent.I think from the start we think that landscape design is not only limited to the projects,or some individualsproject only, but we think it should impact for overall for everybody, for everything, for earth as well,so that's why if you think of it like thatit’s kind of boundaryless, everything we do it will impact our Earth in a better way.I remember our first project is a playground, right? It’s a very small playground,but we propose something refreshing forthe playground playground that doesn't have playequipment,But right now, we're doing likea city scale, from playground to city scale. So, I mean it's growled in terms of experience and challenges that we have as well.And the joy of getting more knowledge and insights, as the times like passing that we do more and morework and you know expanding our involvement .I think like we know more and more and it's morelike accurate in doing the job in execution in implementing.And you know as we grow older, I think hopefully we get wiser and that'sbrings the joy.
△Shma作品：Sky Forest Scape
△Shma作品：Edge Pattaya
△Shma作品：The Standard Hua Hin
我还有一点想说的是我们的员工。现在还有一些从公司创立开始就一起和我们工作了超过10年的同事，我们的同事就是我们公司的一部分，也是我们家庭的一部分，我们一起创立的公司。因此当有人想加入Shma时，他们加入的不仅仅是一个公司，而是一个家庭，如何在这个家庭中朝着共同的愿景一起成长，我觉得是非常重要的。现在我们是非常有活力的家庭（年轻的一代），我为他们感到自豪，也为这16年来所面临的挑战感到自豪。Shma不仅仅属于我们三个人，我们在把这些理念传递给年轻人。
And one thing I want to add is about our people. because I think now we have person who work with us I think more than 10 years yeah from the beginning,I think our people is part of the family part of our I mean the company.yes built a company together.so I think when someone come to join Shma, they join not only theidea but they join the community, how we gonna grow this vision together as a community, I think this is important.so now we have the very energetic community (younger generation), yeah I am very proud of them all to face the challenge of the whole sixteen years.Shma does not belong to three of us.We pass these ideas to the young generation.
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请问三位如何看待未来景观行业的发展前景？Shma接下来将面临的挑战又是什么呢？
How do you think of the prospect of the landscape industry? What the challenges Shma will face in the future?
我认为Shma面临的挑战，实际上我觉得也是世界面临的挑战，像是全球变暖等问题都是我们的挑战。景观设计师当然是其中一个或能够提供解决办法来帮助缓解这些问题的职业之一，因此当我们考虑这个问题时，我们对于世界有许多的责任。同时，我们也有责任去让更多不是景观设计师的人去了解这些问题。因为我们现在做的事情非常重要，这本身就是一个可以表明我们可以为解决全球生存危机做些什么的例子。我认为这是一种职业责任，对于我们来说解决这些问题非常具有挑战性和困难，这意味这它反映了客户的需求与项目理念。我指我们需要相互学习，我们努力说服并让客户相信这样的可能性，通过影响世界其实可以创造一个更好的环境，这点非常具有挑战性。我们也需要去加强我们的团队，因为我们认为这是一种新的知识和技能，我们需要不断学习，以获得知识，以便应对更大的挑战。我认为作为一家公司，我们挑战是如何培养我们的员工成长为具有一定能力的人。因此我们需要每天都提高自己，我们从来不会对自己满足，我们需要不断自我督促。
I think the challenge for Shma, it's a challenge for our world right ？what the global warming issues that that challenge us.And then landscape architects are of course the one of the persons or one of the occupations that can really offer the ideas to help alleviate these issues quite a lot.So, I think if you think of it right I think we do have a lot of responsibility to dofor this world and at the same time you try to get other people who is not a landscape related to understand about these issues as well. Choose our work.So, what we do is I thinkit's very important. it's become example in itself and it also can show what can be done for us to survive globally.I think it’s a responsibility as a profession, and which I think is really challenging anddifficult to tackle those problems,so that meansit reflects to the client requirements and the project brief nowadays. I mean we learn from each other, we also try to convince and tell the client about the possibility that how impact the world can be created for the better environment which is really challenging.And we also need to empower our own people, to be able to, because I think this is a new kind of knowledge and special specialty that we need to also learn we need to keep learning to acquire the new knowledge in order to tackle and respond well with the bigger challenge.I think this is our own challenge as a company to grow our own people to have the certaincapability.So I think we need to improve our own work every day. we never beensatisfied what will the world that we've been doing but we need to keep monitoring checking and keep up with the challenges.
△Shma日常培训，Shma daily training
我认为最困难的挑战是那些并不是由客户给出或明确的挑战，但这也是我们职业所面临的挑战，它需要被整合到设计和工作中。有些时候看起来我们并没有直接回应客户的需求，那么，这两者之间的平衡点是什么呢？作为景观设计师需要在结合这些想法和议题的同时，也能满足客户在成本及营销等方面的需求。很多时候我们都认为客户不仅仅是给我们付钱的人，他们还是社区，还是环境，这些都是我们需要考虑的“客户”。这当然会让我们的工作变得更困难，为了满足给我们支付的客户同时还要满足社会其他部分，这些也是我们的责任之一。我想为了应对这些环境挑战，我们现在也在慢慢改变设计方式，也许我们之前更多的考虑的是花园的美观，但是现在我们更多考虑的是花园是应该如何运作与表现的。像是它如何帮助解决城市温度升高的问题，如何帮助解决水资源的问题，如何帮助解决pm2.5的空气质量问题。这些问题很多都可以在我们的专业范围内解决，因此我们认为景观的未来都需要去处理这些问题，当然最终这些设计都需要看起来美观、新颖和有趣。我们该如何将这些与人们生活方式结合起来，让其成为日常生活的一部分，我想这是我们的作品试图体现的。因为我们为了人们去设计空间，人们如今使用空间的方式也在发生变化，通过社交网络相互交流的方式以及一切都在改变。因此提出一个令人兴奋的空间概念就非常重要了，它需要即可快速传播又实用，我们不能只选择其中一项，需要两者兼备。我们的客户来找我们我们的时候，都希望为他们的项目寻求一些新的想法，由此提高市场竞争力，我们非常理解，因此我们每一年的想法也会更新。
I think what is difficult is the all thesechallenges are not always given or not addressed by our clients,so that it’s the challenge that our professions are aware and it needs to be integratedinto the design and the work.sometimes it doesn’t like correspond directly to the client’s criteria, um you know requirements,so, what is thebalance between these two? as the Landscape Architects needs to inject this idea, these issues at the same time, is to have to satisfy the clients you know in terms of Financial and marketing and so on.sometimes we always think that the clientis not only someone who pays us. the client is the community, the clients is the environment. it is also our client that we need to think of them too.so, I think which make us work a littlebit harder. in order to satisfy not only the client who pay us the money but the rest of the the society we know it's about responsibility too.I think in order to deal with these environmental challenges we also you know changing slowly inthe way we approach our design as well,maybeyou should think more about the aesthetic side of the garden but nowadays we think more about the performance side of our garden.how doesit help with the temperature risings in the urban areas, how does it help with the water issues, how does it help with the PM 2.5 issues the quality of the air qualities.A lot of these can be addressed within our profession, so we think that landscape of the future it has to deal with theseissues.but at the end it looks very beautiful it looks very refreshing and fun, how we're gonna combine those with the people behaviorlifestyle to make it part of everyday life, I think this is what our work try to reflect.because we designspace for people, so the way you know that the way people using our space is also changing every day, because of the way we interact with each other with the social network and everything is changing by the day.So come up with the exciting spaces concept is very important.It needs to be instagramable at the same time and helpful, we can't chooseone of them, it need to be good at both.Because many of our clients who come to us right really lookingforward for some refreshing idea for theirs projects as well, to be competitive in the market. And we understood that, those are the bars that we have to raise every year as well.
对我们来说另一个挑战是我们从来不限定客户类型或局限于泰国或特定的区域，我们试图开拓其他的市场。像中国，现在我们还有在美国的项目，我们总在不断的探索新的领域。我们在此过程中不仅能获取更多的经验同时也能做出一些贡献。因此，这将会是我们未来五到十年的挑战，可能成为一个国际设计品牌，传播我们的设计理念，为其他人或其他地区做些贡献。我想我们永远不知道未来的景观项目会发展成什么样，因为我们从不会限制景观的定义，所以无论是建筑还是室内都会整合，都没有边界，因此我们很期待将要面临的下一个挑战。
And another challenge is that wenever limit our client or our world only in in Thailand or in this region,we try to open up to other markets.like in China, and now we have projects in US, I mean we always explore to add our other territory.in order to not only to gainmore experience but also to be able to contribute to as well.so I think this is going to be ourchallenge in the next 5 to 10 years, probably gonna become the global brand as a company to introduce specialty and contribution to others to the territory.I think we never know what will be the project for the landscape in the future,because we never limit our landscape definitions,So, the building itself thethe large the indoor the is all combined no boundaries. nowadays so we're looking forward to the next challenge that we're gonna face.
采访：景观邦
受访：Shma
策划：邓妃才、符凤兰
剪辑：狗仔
